Speaker 1: 0:01

I saw a solution from the multiverse in the real world. Ooh, this is another one, not one that we did, but one that you know. Not the one that we deserve, but the one that we.

Speaker 2: 0:11

The Batman version. Yes, the Batman, Not the one you deserve. The one you what is the quote?

Speaker 1: 0:15

Not the one that we need.

Speaker 2: 0:17

Not the hero.

Speaker 1: 0:18

No, not the hero we deserve, the hero we need. No, not the hero we need, the hero we deserve. That's what it is.

Speaker 2: 0:22

For a guy who spent so much time thinking about Batman. I cannot ever get that quote right. It's a good quote.

Speaker 1: 0:27

So here's the idea, and I found that in Brazilian, in a Brazilian prison, at least one of them, you were in a Brazilian prison. Yes, so I was trapped in a Brazilian prison. It was. I had quite a Christmas break.

Speaker 2: 0:38

Was this one where it had a hole and you had to, like, tie a rope to yourself and climb out of it. Wait, this is Batman.

Speaker 1: 0:43

This is the thing and I had to right.

Speaker 2: 0:45

I had to tie it my I climb up out of the hole and the secret was you have to let go of the rope or whatever. Yep, but truly it was Bane.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Bane was in that way.

Speaker 2: 0:54

I was born to the dark. You were merely adopted. I love Bane's voice. Our super topical 2012 efforts.

Speaker 1: 1:02

I heard Bane's voice is a mixture of Darth Vader and Sean Connery.

Speaker 2: 1:05

So that makes sense. Yeah, tom Hardy's a weirdo and that would be something that you would say Tom, what are you about this? And he's like perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:12

Perfect. This is if Sean Connery was Darth Vader.

Speaker 2: 1:16

My name is Bond, james Bond.

Speaker 1: 1:19

See, exactly, it sounds just like it. Like, luke, I am your father. Why did we cast Sean Connery for this instead of Join the dark side? That's pretty good. It's like who needs, who needs a? Who was actually Darth Vader at the James Earl Jones?

Speaker 2: 1:39

James Earl Jones is a voice Could have done John Connery. He was a contemporary.

Speaker 1: 1:43

They could have got him. So inside of, inside of this Brazilian prison, they decided that they would use geese as guard dogs. Okay, Brazilian geese yeah, and they just walks by the geese are like ah, ah ah.

Speaker 2: 1:58

It's like the best.

Speaker 1: 2:00

They just wander around the like outer yard of the of the prison and if they see anyone they honk. And it's really loud and annoying, and they don't. They don't. They're not like dogs. You have to, like you know, maintain, like to care for Geese. You just like throw pellets, you know, on the grass and they'll.

Speaker 2: 2:18

I was going to say I wonder if they train those security geese by like just teaching them that all people have food and like bread that they will give them at all times. So when they see a person they're like hey, hey, hey, hey, hey hey.

Speaker 1: 2:28

Yes, it works out. They're like what's, what's up with the geese now? They're oh hi.

Speaker 2: 2:32

They're going over to that makeshift bush that seems to be moving every few feet, strangely suspicious.

Speaker 1: 2:42

I love it but unfortunately, you know, prison's probably prisoners probably try to ring their necks all the time.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Well, I was going to say I mean, you can't kill a dog, bring me to a place where a goose is the guard. You know, I would like punt that goose over the wall, walk out.

Speaker 1: 2:54

But I think the problem is it's like they have like fit, you know a hundred. I mean you can have like a hundred geese who is a crap.

Speaker 2: 2:59

You know it won't make any difference.

Speaker 1: 3:01

Plus, christmas comes around. You can have a Christmas goose straight from the prison yard.

Speaker 2: 3:06

What happens in the summer, like when they fly north? Are they like shoot all of our?

Speaker 1: 3:10

security. They're not like the blackneck geese, they're not migrating. Yeah, they're like the like terrestrial geese.

Speaker 2: 3:17

It comes. It comes like four months in the summer, Like sweet. All the guards are gone, we can do whatever we want Just walk right out of this thing.

Speaker 1: 3:24

Yeah, it's winter, so that's geese guard dogs.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Many, many in the wild. Many solutions.

Speaker 1: 3:30

Yeah, many solution I found in the wild. That's good.

Speaker 2: 3:33

Yeah, so we should see if we can get those geese branded.

Speaker 1: 3:35

If they'll like, spray paint our podcast logo on the side, the goose, the prison goose, yeah, oh, that'd be cool actually, like when they yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:42

It looks like a bunch of garboli cook until they open up their wings, like in that really aggressive stance, and then you're like and you're like oh, solutions for the whole team.

Speaker 1: 3:50

Maybe I'll check that out. Yeah, what is that? What's it written on those geese's wings?

Speaker 2: 3:55

People are always looking for messages on geese's wings. In the surveys I take, it never says how did you discover this podcast from the wings of a goose that was trying to be part of the drop down?

Speaker 1: 4:04

now Trying to capture me. Ok, should we do a real solution? We should do a real solution, ok.

Speaker 2: 4:22

Wait, I should introduce myself. Hi, I'm Scott Moppen and my name's Adam Prouse. I always said my name was Adam.

Speaker 1: 4:28

And we are solutions from the multiverse.

Speaker 2: 4:32

Oh, that was almost Try to get ready.

Speaker 1: 4:34

We are solutions from the multiverse.

Speaker 2: 4:37

Wow, wow, we're getting weird on a Saturday morning.

Speaker 1: 4:42

So solutions from the multiverse is a podcast that comes to you weekly, where every episode is a completely new solution to the world's problems.

Speaker 2: 4:50

And a bang up conversation between two dapper dudes.

Speaker 1: 4:53

Hella, banter Hella. From us up here in Northern California. We are based in San Francisco or Oakland, and Oakland, sorry, the Bay.

Speaker 2: 5:02

We're in the Bay.

Speaker 1: 5:05

And yeah, we try. Usually we talk about urbanism. I come up with a lot of the solutions Just going to not lie. I'm a professor. That's it. Scott's a comedian podcast producer. Yep I react to him, so he helps me.

Speaker 2: 5:17

But that's what I love. I love offloading the work to you. Yeah, what is that not your preferred version?

Speaker 1: 5:24

I did some research. Well, actually, maybe not really. This came from a long time ago, so I'll just tell you the solution, which is extended civil families Extended civil families. Yeah, ok, and I just I'm ripping this idea off of a super, super book, a book from way long ago that no one's read.

Speaker 2: 5:43

I'm going to have to back up to what a civil family is I'm thinking of. Civil union is a thing that people who don't get married have.

Speaker 1: 5:50

Yeah, so you have a family, right, like your immediate family, I do have a family. Nice try, hopefully.

Speaker 2: 5:55

Nice try to roast me there, but it didn't work. I do have a family.

Speaker 1: 5:58

So orphan Whoa Wow, punching down on a Saturday morning, ok.

Speaker 2: 6:05

I have a family. Thank you With members.

Speaker 1: 6:07

I watched the Chappelle show, which his recent stand-up and he did punching down, and it was actually pretty funny. It was really funny Because his whole joke was like I'm trying to round on this whole punching down thing.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Well, he was like I'm not supposed to punch down, and so it's funny that he's punching down, because you know, the joke is that you're not supposed to do that, ok, and so it's funny. I don't know he pulled it off. I know everyone said he didn't and that he's just being mean by punching down, but I think people are just not getting the joke. The joke is that it's funny that you're not supposed to punch down and he's doing it anyways.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Honestly, that's one of the things I was like when a comedian can make me laugh about something that I'm like I should not be laughing.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Right, I should.

Speaker 2: 6:47

But they're able to find an angle on it Right and I'm like, oh my gosh, I am laughing. This is humorous. I shouldn't be laughing. That enhances it.

Speaker 1: 6:52

That makes it more Like that adds a little bit of flavor to that, doesn't? Mean that the liberation of all people isn't right. It doesn't mean that we're not going to support people's social justice.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Your new nickname you told me to call you is Adam Punching Down Brow. That's right. You said just call me that, bro.

Speaker 1: 7:08

No, I can't pull it off. I can't. Chappelle's a genius, I can't do it, but it's pretty funny. But yeah, if you think Chappelle is like triggering you, just remember it's. It's a joke. He's trying to show you that he's doing a thing he's not supposed to do. He's being an imp, he's being it's called being an imp. You know rascal, that's what courts jesters right. They're imps. They do what they're not supposed to do in front of everyone, and it's funny.

Speaker 2: 7:32

The two of us calling the most famous comedian alive and imp.

Speaker 1: 7:36

Brand. His brand is imp. Look at him, Especially when he was younger. He looked like an imp too.

Speaker 2: 7:41

He's all skinny Also honestly, if you've ever studied boxing, punching down is like way Easy. You know. Why would anyone?

Speaker 1: 7:49

oh my gosh. Yeah, most of the port of boxing is built to not even allow either one, you know.

Speaker 2: 7:54

I wonder the people making up that phrase knew that about it. I mean, it's so easy, wait we got to get back to the solution.

Speaker 1: 8:00

We got a family, that we can back load the silliness. All right, so wait.

Speaker 2: 8:05

Civil extend the family.

Speaker 1: 8:06

So let me tell you where I got the idea, because it's because I want to be honest. It's not. This one's not an original. This is taken from Kurt von Ergitz books lap stick. You slap stick vana get yes, that's pretty good source actually, yeah, pretty good. So everyone reads like slaughterhouse, five cats cradle.

Speaker 2: 8:20

Uh-huh, some people have both of those. Yeah, some people read like sirens of titan, some breakfast champions.

Speaker 1: 8:26

These are these are like the top four. Okay, when I was like a teenager, I read almost every book he wrote, which was like 40, 50 books.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Whoa, yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 1: 8:34

I just like burned through all his books and one of them is called slapstick. It was absolutely one of his worst books. It's like truly bad.

Speaker 2: 8:43

Okay.

Speaker 1: 8:43

I would put it near the, but maybe at the bottom of the quality of his books. Okay, but in that I in that book he cast this crazy idea that I just love, which is which is extended civil families. So basically, the government, just like you wake up tomorrow or maybe they kind of announce okay, beginning of next year, we're going to assign everyone in the country to like a large extended family, just randomly.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Okay, so you're just like so there's like 330 million Americans and so you probably want each family to be like pretty manageable, like maybe 25,000 people, right? So you just create like however many that breaks down into you know, like if four of them would be a million, then you need I need about 1200 or two twelve thousand of them. So you create like 12,000 family.

Speaker 2: 9:32

family is not an already existing family we're creating you're creating totally artificially Creating these families.

Speaker 1: 9:38

I would say probably like 20 25,000 people per family is probably a good number. It's good because they have to be like a small enough number that they are not huge like half a million, because it's too.

Speaker 2: 9:48

Too good to write 25,000 Christmas cards. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 9:52

And with the internet you could do this really easily because everyone could just join the Facebook like group for their or like what's that group of their family and then everyone in the country. So when, because you think about it, families provide a lot of support for each other in a really positive way.

Speaker 1: 10:08

They're like a really positive form of civil society Right and I think it's underutilized. I think Kurt Vonnegut thought is underutilized. Like we could just assign people to like 25,000 person families and now people who wanted to. It's a completely voluntary thing, but people who wanted to could like, become a leader of their family, join these family. Yeah, they're families. They're called tribe. I don't even call it tribe because that sounds like you hold on.

Speaker 2: 10:35

I'm starting to get an idea. If you became the leader of the family, you could like protect the family, yep you could create things for the family.

Speaker 1: 10:43

You could also there on businesses.

Speaker 2: 10:46

You could even protect, like the businesses around where your family is, like you could walk into them and be like, hey, there's a really nice butcher shop. Would be a shame if something happened to it or something.

Speaker 1: 10:55

You know like that, and then they would pay you money.

Speaker 2: 10:58

Okay, you would protect there.

Speaker 1: 10:59

I think you're going and then your family with this would have like a special ring and like sometimes if you messed up.

Speaker 2: 11:05

You would get invited to like a secret rendezvous where you wouldn't walk away from or wait. Is this the type of family?

Speaker 1: 11:11

Yeah, basically I'm saying we should do to organize. Everyone should be a gang. Yeah, 25,000.

Speaker 2: 11:18

It is like a gang, yeah, but in the positive way in the positive, positive way. Yes, and you support because that's a reason gangs I mean one of the reasons gangs have- yeah. It's because, like, they need support what they don't want to admit it, but they're like I like the camaraderie and support of having like a brotherhood or a group of people that are with me.

Speaker 1: 11:36

Right, this is like a gang in a way. I think of it, kind of like the Freemasons. Do you know anything about the Freemason?

Speaker 2: 11:40

I know only what I'm supposed to know about the Freemasons, and nothing more.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Whoa, that's a cryptic response.

Speaker 2: 11:46

Yeah, well, they don't like it if you know too much about their secret stuff, right? So?

Speaker 1: 11:49

so five years ago I like met, I like I like met up with some Freemasons and they kind of were like Do you want to join the Freemason? Like do you want to join? And then we had like dinner and they kind of I asked him about it, I researched about it and I thought about joining. Yeah but then I decided it wasn't exactly my scene. I think maybe a different group of Freemasons I would have been interested, but I just didn't. These guys I just didn't like make immediate friends with them.

Speaker 2: 12:13

You're like, you're like look, I like Freemason ring, like that I like yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:17

I do. It's just you guys. You guys are a little bit like.

Speaker 2: 12:21

Anyone else probably, but not I mean, there's not any they were nice.

Speaker 1: 12:24

They were nice guys. But you know what I mean. You just have that immediate like I like these guys or like I don't. You know, I don't, I'm indifferent. Sure, I was just indifferent, so I passed, but I thought, man, this is kind of cool like these, these guys actually have like a really good thing going. You know it, they have camaraderie and they have they support, they help support each other various things, whether it's, you know, emotionally or in their lives a fraternity, I mean say like a group of people working right, choose to work together.

Speaker 2: 12:50

You know who choose to do it?

Speaker 1: 12:51

Yeah, so the government and you could do adoptions between these civil families. So you could. You know, the government would just do it at random Like a trade, like we don't like our 25,000 member, we're trading trade you for your 25,000 Sammy Sosa, we got a trade.

Speaker 2: 13:05

Lenny over here is just really messing things up. We would like to get rid of him.

Speaker 1: 13:08

No, no, you got to pitch him positively. Yet Lenny's great oh, oh.

Speaker 2: 13:14

Would really be sad if we lost him, but let me see what you got.

Speaker 1: 13:19

Yeah what do you got on the table? We'll give you Lenny for two of one of your people.

Speaker 2: 13:22

Oh, you've got that guy who puts both his arms through the same shirt like sleeve, okay.

Speaker 1: 13:27

Well, I guess I.

Speaker 2: 13:28

Guess we'll. We'll entertain the offer. Then We'll take it better than money. We don't want to tell you, but Lenny is a little problem.

Speaker 1: 13:35

I think people could also found their own. You know, like, if people want you, they could go to the government office of Extended civil families and be like we want to register our new civil family and and they could start their own. That'd be fine, okay, and then I think the government could even, like you, give out a little money to the families. You know what I mean. Like the families could get like Organizational support.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Like anybody running one of the families can just like, as long as you can prove you're, like, officially member of the family, like your social security number, whatever is tied to it, and you send in every year, your bank account of your family will get like $15,000 from the federal government and you can use that like, however, your governance structure of your family decides.

Speaker 2: 14:16

You know Now if you're-.

Speaker 1: 14:18

You can throw a huge party, or you can like use it to help people. I don't know. Do whatever.

Speaker 2: 14:23

So if me and my significant other who is with child are in this family? And we give birth to a baby is a baby in the family.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Baby could be drafted. Then it becomes biological. Yeah, it becomes-.

Speaker 2: 14:35

So it's kind of like a clan, like we're making a clan, yeah, a clan. I mean, that's not a great. That word has fallen out of favor.

Speaker 1: 14:42

Yeah, right, because of one specific use oh yeah, right, clan. Yeah yeah clan. So tribal tribe. Is there a non-charged word for it? That's why I call it extended civil family E-C-F.

Speaker 2: 14:54

Army occupying force. You know something that doesn't trigger some sort of negative right?

Speaker 1: 14:58

No See the cool thing about it is that tribes and clans are usually divided along race, religion, language right or location Right.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Maybe you say you can't Like, I'm the warlord of this area.

Speaker 1: 15:10

Maybe you say you can't actually start or trade. Maybe you just say no, you're stuck with who your family is. Because that, because the point is, it'd be random, so there'd be these clans or whatever we shouldn't say clans. But you know what do you?

Speaker 2: 15:23

call it Extended civil family.

Speaker 1: 15:24

Yeah, these families Extended civil families, yeah, families, these mobs, oh God. No, that's not right either.

Speaker 2: 15:30

So there'd be these extended families, these gangs and families, gangs, mobs, hordes, hordes.

Speaker 1: 15:36

They're going way back. We're going back to. Genghis Khan the horde of the Huns.

Speaker 2: 15:42

Yeah, anyways, that's a horde, the extended family. I'll take that back and check with my horde. Hold on, I'll get an answer to you by when the thing.

Speaker 1: 15:48

ECFs, these ECFs, right. So there'd be these ECFs and they'd be blended of all because it'd be randomized. So it's random. You're going to have people of all different colors and races and creeds, and everyone.

Speaker 1: 15:58

A true mixing box. Yeah, it's a true yeah. And then you'd all say, well, we're, you know. And then, whatever your name was, you know, and there'd be governance, you know, they'd be all created with a default constitution. And then they each family could like, through that constitution, could make changes to their constitution, but they'd have a default democratic structure. So, you know, people would be elected to represent the family, you know, and there'd be this sort of default democratic structure to it that would just launch with everyone being the same, and then there would become slight differences, as they did amendments and changes to their constitutions, you know, and they couldn't do anything against, like it'd be a sort of governmental thing. They couldn't do anything. Like they couldn't say only white people are allowed into art. You know they couldn't you know, they couldn't.

Speaker 1: 16:43

You know, whatever do, they couldn't do anything illegal, but they could do civil society, they could do meetings, mutual aid Mutual aid would be the stated goal, like the stated goal is mutual aid.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Yeah, I think we should get to that. What's the? What are the? Instead of me dialing on this, yeah it's mutual aid.

Speaker 1: 17:01

So like Americans are all freaked out about like socialism, like the government centrally, like taking taxes and like doing things, and but Americans are really, they're extremely charitable and they're extremely comfortable paying for things that end up in their backyard. Like people are willing to pay a lot to like a school system that goes directly down the street to their school where their kids go. They'll pay lots of taxes to that school, like they don't care because it's going right back into their kids' education.

Speaker 2: 17:30

Well, and it's somewhat indirectly affecting them because it's in their spot. So people are comfortable with that.

Speaker 1: 17:36

They're not comfortable with money, just like coming out and going to like they don't know where or like people unrelated to them.

Speaker 1: 17:42

They don't like people don't like that and they're not, and they don't like central planning and they don't like things being sort of it all comes back to our like Jeffersonian history and as being Americans we're like we have the county system, like people want this sort of local control. The NIMBY movement itself is just an expression of this. The people like a kind of localism, a kind of right, which is a sort of tribalism, a sort of kind of identifying with this group and then that group getting sort of benefits from my work.

Speaker 2: 18:11

Okay, Well, and humans seem to be built very tribal in nature and we have to fight against that and it feels like when it gets into a very tribal sort of thing where it's like ah ah ah, it's like oh, we've regressed, we've moved backwards, Like we need to. We can be in the tribes but we need to be able to interact with other tribes, like sports right, like look at sports right Sports are full of people of all different races and religions and sex and gender, and they all like some baseball team.

Speaker 2: 18:40

That's great. Oh right, it's perfect. You know, I thought you remember some football team Players are pretty much no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 18:46

Players are, yeah, but the athlete or the spectators. So this is kind of so. We're capable of it. And also people are pretty comfortable with like mixed families now. So if you said this is my extended family and you looked out at a crowd of people and it was all different races and genders and stuff, you probably wouldn't be that freaked out right.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Probably not.

Speaker 1: 19:08

Because people are kind of that's become normalized. It was 200 years ago and you said here's my cousin, and they were different race.

Speaker 2: 19:14

No, what the hell I know not to give you.

Speaker 1: 19:17

Right, but now it's more cool. So we're primed to make this. We're primed already to have these extended civil families and then, through the extended civil families, we can have mutual aid which will lessen the burden of our currently like over-technological applied and over-capitalist up-eyed system that we have Mutual age are meaning like if something bad happens to one member of our family, we kind of can split up the cost of the thing amongst us and it really doesn't impact anyone.

Speaker 1: 19:49

So, like 25,000 people, or if it was 50,000 people, you could make an insurance company.

Speaker 2: 19:55

I was just gonna. You could make a health insurance company. This seems kind of like an insurance model, but in the positive.

Speaker 1: 20:00

And you could do scholarship funds. And you could say, hey, we're gonna tithe to our family and then our family democratically which I have a real strong control because there's only 25,000 people I can like email the president of our family. You know what I mean. Like right.

Speaker 2: 20:14

And he's like who is this talking?

Speaker 1: 20:16

to me. No, you can be like, I won't vote for you. One of 25,000 votes a big deal. Like you have a real strong democratic power right. In some ways it's recreating the county system of the United States, but all over the whole country, cause I don't think these would be localized, so I might have members of my family in like Florida and I might have some in Maine, all over the country.

Speaker 1: 20:37

And they can like put you up when you visit and they can like it creates this like community across the whole country and you'd have members of your family who are like Trump supporters and you'd have members of your family who are like elite coastal Biden neoliberal Democrats.

Speaker 2: 20:51

No well, those should be really easy dinners to have together.

Speaker 1: 20:55

Well, they might just like families. They're like 25,000 member table when you got to make sure all the plates are done at the same time.

Speaker 2: 21:02

You don't want someone eating while someone else is waiting.

Speaker 1: 21:05

I mean, a bunch of people are just gonna be like oh, technically I'm part of this family but I have nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2: 21:10

Right, okay, but a bunch of people are where they're like, I can vote, but I choose not to Right.

Speaker 1: 21:14

But a bunch of people would be like, whoa, this is really cool. Yeah, I'm a big part of my family, yeah, I'm a big part of my family. And people will be like, oh, tell me about your family. Like you'd go to a dinner party and people wouldn't just be like, oh, where do you work? Right, they'd say tell me about your family, cause each family would be really different and interesting.

Speaker 2: 21:30

You have famous people in families. I'm so.

Speaker 1: 21:32

Oprah would be in someone's family Cause he's an American citizen. So someone's family would be like oh yeah, we have Oprah in our family. Cool, you know.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Like yeah, and you could be like, I'm involved. I'm on the board of our family.

Speaker 1: 21:41

Yeah, I'm on the board of my family, right, or you could be like yeah, I don't really have much to do with my family.

Speaker 2: 21:45

Or like oh, I kind of, I kind of go and hang out with my wife's family. I get the quarterly briefings.

Speaker 1: 21:50

You get married, you have to decide which family the you know.

Speaker 2: 21:53

That's what I was going to ask. So if I'm, I'm here in California and I joined the buff dragons, that's my new family. Oh yeah, I love that name and and my I mean like strong dragons?

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yeah, of course, okay, yeah, just really jack, just really jack. Great logo you need a buff dragon, a buff dragon. And then so Okay.

Speaker 2: 22:08

And my, my family's in Texas. Over there Are they default into my?

Speaker 1: 22:13

family. No, no, no, no, they are their own. So my dad and mom might be in a different family than me. That's a good question. That's a good question. Should we do it by by natural lines? I guess we should, probably should do it by natural lines.

Speaker 2: 22:24

But then where does it stop? Like, does my cousin have to my cousin over? Like that I've never met. Do they have to be in my family or do I have to be in theirs? Because we have blood ties.

Speaker 1: 22:35

You don't have to think about all this right now. I don't think cousins, but maybe parents and children, parents and children and then, and then it kind of flexes by marriage.

Speaker 2: 22:43

But then we can rip the siblings away from each other, cause the government knows everyone's name and everyone's marriage right. Everyone and everyone's marriage. That's the idea, yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:55

So they know, so they know marriage status, who they're married to and they know who their children are through dependence. Like this is all in the tax system, right? So they could say, like for every social security number, we know which social security numbers married to which and we know which ones are children of which. So couldn't they then break the nuclear families into different, into different? I guess I don't know. I don't know the math of it, but it's so doable. You just in a country of 300, million.

Speaker 2: 23:19

How many 25,000 member families? It's like 12,000, I think.

Speaker 1: 23:22

So 12,000 families, isn't that right Cause 12,000 would be four times.

Speaker 2: 23:26

Four times 25 is a million. So you get a million for 40 to a million.

Speaker 1: 23:31

So if it's 330, then you need 330 times four, which is 12,000.

Speaker 2: 23:35

Oh, you would get four to the 100,000. You would get 40 to the million right no 20,.

Speaker 1: 23:41

oh, you're right 40 to the million. So it'd be 120,000 families which is well, maybe it should be 50,000. I don't know. I mean, some economists could work out what the optimal?

Speaker 2: 23:51

you know, I'm not digging your numbers, I'm not like. Well, you said 24,000 instead of 26,000. So wrong, but you know, I'm just trying to figure out logistically how's this, how's it, what does it?

Speaker 1: 24:01

look like you generally bring all the math to this podcast. I love doing math on a podcast, just so to the listeners, whenever we get a chance to do some division or multiplication. I'm just, I'm just banging my. Get the whiteboard out, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Out there banging my drum. I'm like yeah, this is math time.

Speaker 1: 24:19

So the buff dragons? Okay, so you had a broad, good question, but our answer is hand wavy. Whatever Economists will figure that out, sure, like Wonks will figure that out but the main point is what's a Wonk? A kid? A Wonk is like someone who knows a lot about very specific political and very like bureaucratic stuff.

Speaker 2: 24:35

You just said Wonk, like it was a replacement for the word nerd. You were like the Wonks can figure it out.

Speaker 1: 24:40

So nerds might be good at like math or something, but Wonks are only good at policy. Right, because it's called the policy. They're like a limited nerd. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like a special edition nerd. Yeah, yeah oh man, I'm sorry Wonks, yeah, Wonks, I'm sorry out there.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Wonks, would Wonks self identify?

Speaker 1: 24:54

My brothers are my. Both my brothers are.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Wonks.

Speaker 1: 24:56

Well, actually this is the Wonk time right now, but my brother Ben is more of a Wonk than my brother Nick they have a huge movie out right now in theaters the Wonks.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Yeah, no, what Wonk a? I mean that's like the he is movie of all Wonks, yeah, although he's not very political for a movie about a Wonk Wonks.

Speaker 1: 25:14

no like, like I talked to a bunch of like Yimby Wonks. You know, it did not sound like words, you know.

Speaker 2: 25:20

I talked to a bunch of Yimby Wonks. Yeah, yimby Wonks, an English learner who's into this podcast, is like no Nimbies are not as much, as Wonk are not wonky as yet, yimbies are all really wonky. Okay.

Speaker 1: 25:31

Like they know everything about, like parking minimums, like they know everything about, like you know, transit and stuff, anyways.

Speaker 2: 25:38

So the Wonks would figure it out.

Speaker 1: 25:39

They would figure out all the details. But the point is Americans are on board with, like their charitable. A large portion of Americans are, you know, voted for Bernie Sanders and he was proposing this sort of more centralized aid. You know where you would pay, like a tax, like 4% of your income and then everyone would get healthcare and you wouldn't have to pay health insurance premiums, co-pays. You know you wouldn't have to pay any of the costs you pay for health insurance which is way more than 4% of people's income, and then you just pay a 4% tax.

Speaker 1: 26:09

So it's a good deal and people were going for that. But I mean, california voted for Bernie over Hillary and over the other guy, trump, well over in the primary.

Speaker 2: 26:21

So Bernie won California.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Yeah, our current president, yeah, yeah, yeah, so Bernie won California I think both times which means a bunch of the Democrats in California are totally open to like helping each other. But there's not enough in the whole country that people are kind of freaked out by like a central helping of each other.

Speaker 2: 26:38

So we need to make mutual aid societies. I think we're also very cynical and we see like reports where, like the Pentagon's charging $50 for a pencil or something, you're like, oh, my money's being poorly used. I want to be charitable but like, don't waste my money, I want my money to be spent, and so if you have a version that does that, right.

Speaker 1: 26:57

And so you could say these families have a kind of template for an insurance company, have a template for, like, a scholarship fund for school, have a template for like these kind of inside the family structures. That would all serve for mutual aid helping the family members of your family who are homeless, helping the members of your family who are whatever. And the wealthy and famous and well connected members of the family will be identifiable, like what is Oprah doing for her family oh, she gave money to her families.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Like homelessness, trust, you know or whatever it is you know. Oh, you're an Elon Musk's family. Yeah, you're an Elon. Everyone gets a Tesla for Christmas. I don't know if he gets it. Is he an American citizen? I think, only American citizen. I think he's an American citizen, but he was born in South.

Speaker 1: 27:43

Africa. Yeah, so I think he would be part of the. Sun's family. So then, and he might be like, oh, this whole thing's stupid, and whatever Some people would they have their.

Speaker 2: 27:50

Elon thinking something stupid that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 27:52

Some people would poo poo it and say this is dumb. But I think the vast majority of Americans, because of our history, as like a kind of Jeffersonian county, you know religion, you know civil society based society, I think the goal. I'm in favor of Medicare for all. I think we should just do Medicare for all because it just works and it works in every other country and it just works. So we should just do that. But if you can't politically get it to work, we need to find other solutions and I think this is one. I think this would vastly reduce the, you know, the problems of society.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Yeah, on like a, on like a. Certainly make it less, like people don't feel like their vote counts, cause it's one out of 350 million, you know. But if it's one out of 25,000 or even less, if you count minors that can't vote in, that you know, then it it suddenly, you like, oh, you know what my participation matters more, and so it it small. I mean, it's essentially small government. It's a version of small government implemented by big government.

Speaker 1: 28:52

That's right and you'd have, because it was randomized, you'd have like a third to two thirds of your family would be of one political stripe.

Speaker 2: 29:00

And the other third, or two thirds, you know it'd be, and then you'd have a third of non political people who are like stop talking about politics and now people would, and now people would go into these meetings and, you know, run elections inside their families to be treasurer and secretary president.

Speaker 1: 29:14

You know, in the whatever he had a Congress in the president, you know, maybe if a little bit of assembly or something people would have to go in and be like this is what I want to do for our family and and these national political issues or or dichotomies, I think would start to break down because I don't think they're real, like I don't actually think like the differences between, like a disenfranchised, like rust belt guy who became a Trump supporter. I don't think fundamentally, my intentions and his intentions are that different. We all want to take care of our families and have health insurance and have an education.

Speaker 2: 29:44

And you know We've done this like trick, where we like forget about the original intention and we think about the what, what the actions are, and you go oh, your actions are bad, You're trying to ruin the country. I'm trying to save the country.

Speaker 1: 29:57

I'm trying to stop your actions.

Speaker 2: 29:58

When, when, if you dial it back one level, everybody's trying generally everyone's trying to help things get better. We just have different versions of it. So if we can get on the same page of like no, we both want it to be a better place, let's figure it out like with words before we like fight it and go back and forth and pass stuff and repeal it and whatever. But yeah, it's ideological.

Speaker 1: 30:18

Some families would have deep I mean a lot.

Speaker 1: 30:20

This would divide a lot of families as it does biological families, you know but, but I think it's better to have that fought out on a different level than just this sort of mediated by the mass media. And actually the mass media increases, right, they make money by fanning the flames of this, whereas if families were torn apart by this, like these extended civil families, there would be a value in reducing it, right? People would be like how do we make it so we can at least be civil, so that our family can operate? And instead of saying, well, I can just go on the internet and just scroll and be angry at the bad guy or rather I'm red and the bad guy's blue, or the blue and I'm the bad guy's red.

Speaker 1: 31:01

You know there's no cost. But if you're like, look, our family could be offering all these great supports and be this great thing for us, but we can't because we don't see an eye. Politically it's like the incentive is to do reconciliation. So, I don't know. I think it would heal. I think the goal would be mutual aid would reduce the burdens of capitalism, like poverty. It would increase community right, like people are kind of lonely, lack community.

Speaker 1: 31:29

You would have your family and then every sit with 25, maybe 50,000 people. Every city would have like at least a dozen people in your family. You can meet up and have a dinner. You could meet up and chat or you know you could. It'd be a club that now you're a part of and everybody really different old people, young people, you know it'd be intergenerational is cool.

Speaker 2: 31:46

The one thing is you have to name it.

Speaker 1: 31:48

something cool, like, not something cool, but you have to name it.

Speaker 2: 31:51

You just can't name these families you can't be like. Oh, I'm in family. Gkg 1214.

Speaker 1: 31:57

Yes, they would vote on their names.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Yeah, you'd have to have something that people could call out you would want it on the back of a motorcycle vest. I'm back to the gang part.

Speaker 1: 32:06

Maybe give them three letters, three numbers, three numbers like area codes Like a Boy Scout troop.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Yeah, exactly like a Boy Scout troop. We're in family. 143 out of South Dakota. Yeah, 143 out of South Dakota.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Well, I think the families would be they wouldn't be localized, they'd be decentralized, so they'd be all over the country.

Speaker 2: 32:23

So you'd be like oh, and then you could, you could make smaller clubs too, so you could be like all of family.

Speaker 1: 32:28

143 in California is in this Facebook group.

Speaker 2: 32:31

That's cool. But then the cool, 143 cool kids. Well then the 143.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Cool kids are a separate group and there could be like elite 143, like we're 143 VPI, like we're just the wealthy, you know, members of this family. But actually even that's better than just all the wealthy people hanging out at Davos and feeling like they're identifying only with each other and not in their family, like people go out of their way. Especially wealthy people do things for their families. They hand their money down to their families, like their biological families. So if you can like hijack this like biological kind of irrational thing and tell people you have a larger family.

Speaker 2: 33:12

You have a large family. Access the grumpy grandpa for a larger number of Right held out hands.

Speaker 1: 33:17

Then they could say, like you know, when I die, I am gonna give 10% of my money to my family, to my extended family you know, my civil extended family, and that'd be like holy shit, that's kind of interesting, Like that could create a really interesting dynamic of society at the same time. Anyways, I think it's sort of a it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. It's basically like the county system. What I'm suggesting is a county system for the 21st century.

Speaker 2: 33:40

Well, the idea of the nuclear family was it's not the same now as it was like in the 1940s or whatever. The leave it to be over time. When they're like, the nuclear family takes care of all these things, and right now they're like that's not a thing that we can count on. So having another level of like family structure, I don't think that's bad at all. I feel like we're moving away from that.

Speaker 1: 33:59

And it'd be multicultural. It would have all different races because it'd be totally randomized.

Speaker 2: 34:03

It's a randomized yeah, so it'd be totally yeah. It's a group.

Speaker 1: 34:07

I think it's a cool thing.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Okay, are we in different families? Probably it's randomized, right?

Speaker 1: 34:11

Yeah, probably I mean the chances. That the chances one in 120,000.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Your friend or family is really low, yeah, okay, well then, we'll have beef with your family, and so families will have beef with each other.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Yeah, they'll be rivalries and stuff.

Speaker 2: 34:22

No but I meant I'll come over and we'll have dinner and we'll be like but we'll have beef.

Speaker 1: 34:25

Yeah, yeah, delicious beef. Of course, you took it the wrong way.

Speaker 2: 34:28

That's really tribal of you. That's interesting.

Speaker 1: 34:32

Showing my true colors.

Speaker 2: 34:33

No, but we'll come over and have cheeseburgers. That's what I've been like, Having beef together. Okay well, extended families, I like it. I could use another family.

Speaker 1: 34:44

I mean sorry if my current family's listening to that I mean you still have your current family, you just have your extended family too. Yeah, it's just my current family, and you have your extended family, and you have your extended family and you have the buff family.

Speaker 2: 34:53

I'll let you guys pick which one is my new family, and then there could be a.

Speaker 1: 34:59

I bet if you made the families big enough, the teams, the teams, they could be called teams.

Speaker 2: 35:03

Actually, Americans love teams. Yeah, stadiums make a place.

Speaker 1: 35:05

This is your team? No, there could be a whole new layer of athleticism that was created.

Speaker 2: 35:13

This is our new football league with 120,000 teams in it, so the tournament is going to be lengthy. Get ready, sorry guys, this round Robin. First of all, the bracket is Get ready to print off a lot of paper for your office.

Speaker 1: 35:26

It's a big bracket Competition, you gotta use the digital one. You can zoom way in and zoom way out. Well, I mean, yeah, if there's 120,000, but what if it was 50,000, then it would be 60,000. And maybe not every family would put up a team, maybe only like a thousand would.

Speaker 2: 35:39

Only the ones who happen to get professional athletes Some would be really good and some would be really bad. No, professional athletes, if they're bad, are bad Like strangely, my team has Tom Brady in it. That's so weird. I guess we'll have him be on our football team.

Speaker 1: 35:51

There could be like, or even it could be inside the family. So 50,000 people you could put up 18 teams.

Speaker 2: 35:56

I know I showed my age. I should say Patrick Mahomes. There we go. That's more current. Oh, is that a more current? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 36:01

I don't keep track, although I've been told I'm a Tom Brady lookalike.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Really yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Sharp bone structure. Okay, I guess Is he a good looking.

Speaker 2: 36:10

I mean, I don't know, he's known for his athletic ability, not his looks. No, I guess he's a good looking dude. Right People like the Brady. He's pointy Like Mary to a supermodel.

Speaker 1: 36:21

Pointy nose, pointy cheekbones, pointy chin. You're a sharp dude. Sharp Looking sharp. I take offense at that, sir. You shouldn't make fun of someone's appearance like that. Sharp is good. It's like calling someone potato shaped Sharp.

Speaker 2: 36:36

I would say that calling someone sharp versus potato shaped, what I'm saying is the same thing because they're commenting on the shape of my body. If I show up and a dude comes down, with a really cool suit on and I go, yo looking potato shaped, that's a different, that's a different. He is going to be not very plus about that.

Speaker 1: 36:53

But that's different sharp. Sharp, like you're looking stylish, but sharp. Your physical features are actually like letter opener.

Speaker 2: 36:59

Who's looking potato shaped at night?

Speaker 1: 37:00

I could open letters with your nose and cheekbones. Not a compliment, all right, let's wind it down.

Speaker 2: 37:07

Okay, families.

Speaker 1: 37:09

What's going down? True batteries are going down.

Speaker 2: 37:13

Our batteries are.

Speaker 1: 37:16

We could also. Oh, one thing we didn't talk about is implementation. So we've been saying this whole time yeah, what do you do?

Speaker 1: 37:20

Like burning. You know like the government's got to do it. Yeah, no-transcript, Facebook could do it. Facebook could just be like now we got these families or anyone. A lot of people could do this, a lot of institutions could do this. Now, should you allow people to start families like this? I don't think so, because it would devolve into tribalism. All the religion, all the Christians, are gonna be in one. All the. That would be bad. Well, if someone's going to start it like that, they're gonna try and do cherry picking and not the randomized thing, which is where things go off the rails real fast.

Speaker 2: 37:46

Then it becomes a gym pick and everyone that's picked at the end is like this sucks and the wealthy would be like we're in a family all the wealthy.

Speaker 1: 37:53

That's not good. Yeah, the point would.

Speaker 2: 37:55

I think it.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Maybe it does have to be done by the government or by some like halo level thing like Facebook, and just be like okay, we're just doing this thing where you're all in these families, everyone's in the thing, and random.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Yeah, random bang, bang, boom yeah, and the guy would trust the government to do it better. But if the government want.

Speaker 1: 38:13

I think, this could be like a Republican. If the Republican party, I'll be wonky for a second. Okay, right-wingism as we know it. I'll be a bit critical of it, but kind of close-minded, kind of not open to like other sexes, other genders, other races, other stuff. That's gone. That's going away, that's just gonna be gone, because it's just a generational thing.

Speaker 2: 38:39

Yeah, it does generate like with the stats. It seems like it is, and the Republican party knows this. They know that they, and so they can either shut down votes or they can either shut down votes so they can either shut down voting, which is what they're trying to do.

Speaker 1: 38:51

They're trying to actually control the system, so that fewer and fewer people can have more and more outsized control of the government, or they could adopt things More popular that are more popular but are still in line with their values.

Speaker 2: 39:04

Well, that's been the case the whole time. They could have always adopted more popular stances, no, but they could adopt but they could adopt, but it's because they haven't come up with them.

Speaker 1: 39:10

So this example of extended families is kind of in line with like a Mitt Romney sort of progressive conservative ideology, because it's not centrally planned, it's not the government, the government sets it up, but then there's no taxation, there's no control. It's decentralized, it's democratic the people doing their own thing.

Speaker 2: 39:30

And that's what I'm saying. You can sell it as like a version of small government, which is what they love.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Small government, it's small government, social welfare through mutual aid, but it's multicultural and it's equitable and right and it's American. It's a big kind of toss-up which Americans love. They don't like things to be. I mean, medicare for all would just solve it. We don't have to think anymore I'm gonna have healthcare, but Americans don't like that.

Speaker 2: 39:55

It needs to be a little crazy. We gotta have a little. We got a little wild west.

Speaker 1: 39:59

So maybe this is kind of like what a right wing social welfare policy could be in the future, when they need to actually get votes from 30 year olds who now are 10 year olds who are all gonna be progressive and so they're gonna need to have policies that appeal to them. They can't just say, oh, you know, oh no, the hordes of brown people are coming from Ecuador, cause the 30 year old will be like, I don't really care, like I don't mind brown people Like.

Speaker 2: 40:27

I'm not afraid of brown people.

Speaker 1: 40:31

So anyways, yeah, that's, I think, maybe the bigger picture for this. Now that we talk about it. It's kind of a right wing social welfare idea.

Speaker 2: 40:38

Well, I was gonna say everybody out there, pick your families, but we don't get to.

Speaker 1: 40:41

You don't get to.

Speaker 2: 40:42

You get assigned, get assigned your families, everybody assigned your families be in faith.

Speaker 1: 40:45

You know when the families come you know. Become a leader in your family, why not?

Speaker 2: 40:50

Yeah, dominate your family, take over, wait what?

Speaker 1: 40:52

It's not bad. Actually, I don't think it's a bad thing but yeah. Try to help mutual aid, mutual aid.

Speaker 2: 40:59

I am not mutual domination, I'm the Dom of the Buff, the Buff Dragon.

Speaker 1: 41:03

Nice to meet you. Here's the Buff Dragons leather club.

Speaker 2: 41:06

Yeah, this is great. How did you know exactly what we would be dressed as?

Speaker 1: 41:10

So amazing. It would be funny, with that many families, there would be, just by randomness, one family that like actually got like all one right. There would be some right.

Speaker 2: 41:20

There'd be a family where, like 70% of people were like whatever something, or what if, like, all the Jackass guys go into one family and they're like, hey, where are the Jackass family? Jackass family People would probably still alternative families.

Speaker 1: 41:33

If this became popular, people would start alternative families, but they wouldn't be sanctioned by the government.

Speaker 2: 41:37

They'd be like unsanctioned families, rebel families that's just called outlaw families.

Speaker 1: 41:41

It's just called the Freemasons. I mean you can start civil societies already, but this would just be like a default civil society layer.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Gangs for good, that's your idea. Gangs for good, gangs for good, that's good. I like that it is good. Oh, I was gonna try and poke you with it.

Speaker 1: 41:57

No, I love that. Gangs for good.

Speaker 2: 41:59

Okay.

Speaker 1: 42:00

Clans, for no, we don't wanna get away from clans.

Speaker 2: 42:02

Clans is a messed up word With a C, man with a C. There are some words in this world that have been ruined.

Speaker 1: 42:07

We don't wanna try, we don't wanna clan, we don't want gang, we don't want. Extended civil family, I don't know, extended civil family or just civil family CF. I love it. Okay, thanks everybody for coming and listening to our crazy ideas.

Speaker 2: 42:19

Yeah, thanks for joining us. See you again. Yeah, see you in a week. Bye 穿 sides. I hope you enjoyed today's segment.